KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: More now on Australia's historic diplomatic shift, announcing plans to formally recognise the state of Palestine.
SARAH ABO, HOST: The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese joins us live now from Melbourne. PM, good morning to you. So, the Palestinian community says this doesn't go far enough. They think -
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning from a chilly Melbourne.
ABO: Yes, it is cold there. The Palestinian community thinks this is meaningless. They think this is an empty commitment. The Jewish groups aren't happy either, they feel betrayed. So how does this announcement change anything?
PRIME MINISTER: What it does is make Australia part of the international momentum that we're seeing move towards countries, like minded countries, saying enough is enough. We've had 77 years of conflict, we need to end the cycle of violence. The way to do that is what Australia has had for a long time, a bipartisan position of a two state solution. One of those states obviously needs to be Israel and the other state needs to be Palestine. And moving towards that is an opportunity that the international community wants to seize out of this absolute crisis. To move forward in a way that provides security and safety for both Israelis and Palestinians.
STEFANOVIC: So, where is the border? Where is the government? And where is the control of the territory? I'm not sure what you are recognising here. Is it just an idea that you're recognising?
PRIME MINISTER: What we're doing is, and that's where we've put forward the conditions as well. We've said it's predicated on the statements by the Palestinian Authority to recognise Israel, to have a state which is disarmed, to have some international peacekeeping role as well, to have reform of the Palestinian Authority moving forward and an isolation of Hamas. Now the international community, of course, final determinations will be subject to those negotiations. But the international community is saying that we can't just continue to do the same thing. We saw the terrorist atrocities of October 7 result in the greatest loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust. And since then we've seen tens of thousands of lives lost, innocent lives being lost in Gaza. We're seeing an increase in settlements and settler violence on the West Bank. We need to break this cycle of violence. We just can't keep doing the same thing.
STEFANOVIC: The problem is, PM, one of the caveats is Hamas doesn't play a role, but you cannot guarantee that Hamas won't play a role, can you?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, you can. The international community certainly can, and that is very clear. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It has no role to play. And Hamas, I've seen some of the comments that have been made about Hamas somehow being rewarded. Hamas is opposed to two states. This is the opposite of what Hamas wants. Hamas wants one state. And some, unfortunately, in the extreme elements of the Israeli Government want one state too. And when you have two people and hatred being fostered and essentially a military solution being put forward and no political solution, well, that's just an approach that will see this violence just continue to go on and on.
ABO: At the end of the day - well, that's right, PM. I mean, it has gone on, as you said, for 77 years. You're only acting now, two years after all the bloodshed that we've seen, more than 60,000 killed. You say that Hamas has no role to play. You say that, Canada says that, France says that, but there's nothing the West can do to stop them from being elected. And if they are elected, will you revoke recognition?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course there is something we can do. We can stop them standing, let alone be elected. And if you look at the statements that were made, firstly by the Palestinian Authority on June 10, and then the statements, the breakthrough that occurred with the meeting convened by Saudi Arabia and France in New York just a couple of weeks ago, I think was a significant turning point. The Arab states around saying, one, that they opposed and condemned what occurred on October 7, secondly, that Hamas had to be disarmed, that it had to be removed from any role in the West Bank or Gaza. And that was a breakthrough statement that has been made. Historically what we've seen, in 1947, the United Nations envisaged a majority Jewish state for the Jewish people in Israel and a Palestinian state side by side. Now since then, we saw of course, a war take place at that time in 1948, after the Declaration of the State of Israel. We've seen wars in 1967, 1973 and now. And now we have seen conflict over the last two years. What we are now seeing and what has to happen, there can't be a Palestinian state without also having security for the State of Israel. And that is what the world is saying.
STEFANOVIC: The point is that Sarah's saying, PM, with respect even in 2007, Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas, when Hamas took control, you just can't guarantee that it won't happen again.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you can if you have all of the Arab states in the Middle East, all speaking as one, as well as the Palestinian Authority, as well as the international community. Yes you can. One of the things that is fostering hatred in the Middle East is no hope going forward of a solution. If you have people in Israel feeling threatened, and October 7 of course showed the reality of that threat. And you see people in Palestine having no hope, no hope of any future. Seeing their brothers and sisters and children killed -
STEFANOVIC: So, you will revoke Palestinian statehood if Hamas is involved and has a role in the Palestinian state?
PRIME MINISTER: Hamas will have no role. The international community are very clear. And the statements from the United Kingdom, from Canada, from France, the declarations that were made on the weekend that included Italy and Germany and neighbours in this region. 147 countries around the world already recognised Palestine. What you will see in September is a number of other like-minded countries with Australia make this recognition going forward. It’s about peace and security for both Israel and Palestine.
STEFANOVIC: Just finally, Amal Naser was on our show earlier from the Palestine Action Group. She says this is just about appeasing internal factions in the Labor Party. This is what she said on our show.
STEFANOVIC: So, you think it's domestic politics that's led Anthony Albanese to this, not something greater?
AMAL NASER, PALESTINIAN ACTION GROUP: No, absolutely it is domestic politics. There's massive uproar within his own party, but also on the ground. We saw over 300,000 people marching the Harbour Bridge calling an end to this genocide.
STEFANOVIC: Your response, PM?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, there are people on both sides of this debate who want conflict to continue, who want to think that it's like a football game between, you know, Souths and the Broncos and you've got to back in your team, you've got to back them in. What we need is a win-win. What we need is that the fact that this decision is criticised by people on all sides of the debate. I expected that to be the case. What this is about is a serious attempt to move forward. And I say this, that the people who are saying this is not the way forward need to put forward, 'ok, what's your plan?' The plan of Prime Minister Netanyahu is just to continue, continue to push into Gaza, occupy Gaza City. How will that provide a resolution going forward to ongoing conflict that has been there for 77 years?
STEFANOVIC: And will keep going. PM, thank you for your time. Appreciate it.