OLIVIA CAISLEY, HOST: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese joins us live from Canberra. Prime Minister, good morning to you.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Olivia. Before we talk about other issues, can I say that our thoughts are with people in these difficult circumstances in Victoria. The extreme heat, in far north Queensland where I was, particularly up in the northwest, I was in Cloncurry this week. And they are suffering from the aftermath of extreme floods. The airport there has been ripped up, which means people can't get into the mines and into work there. Our thoughts are with people in all parts of the country. I'll be going to the National Emergency Management Agency this morning in about an hour's time, sitting down and getting fully briefed on what is occurring on this continent in different parts of Australia, all under threat. And I just urge all of your listeners if they're in an area that is vulnerable to listen to the experts. If they're in a flooding area, if it's flooded, don't risk it, don't think about it and listen to the authorities. And I thank the ABC as always for keeping people up to date and informed as well. Follow the advice, please.
CAISLEY: As you say, there are so many impacted communities. We've heard some really heartbreaking stories this morning, including from townspeople, including in Ruffy in Victoria. What's your message to them as they're confronting these extreme weather conditions?
PRIME MINISTER: That Australians' thoughts are with you at this time. We pay tribute to the emergency management workers, the SES, people in police, and all of the agencies will be working around the clock to keep people safe. But please follow the advice of the experts. If you're asked to leave your property, please do so in an orderly way. And this is a very difficult period. We're in the peak season now for extreme weather events. And in this vast continent of ours, that can mean different things in different places. The potential of a cyclone event - in North West Queensland would be devastating as well. So, we prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. And thank you to all those people out there who are providing that support, including the people at the NEMA, the National Emergency Management Agency, who will be working very hard on keeping people informed so that we keep people safe.
CAISLEY: PM, let's move to domestic politics now. You're known for having great political instincts, but was the initial decision to not back a Commonwealth Royal Commission one of the occasions where you made the wrong call?
PRIME MINISTER: What we did, Olivia, was to make sure that we prioritised the immediate needs that were required. After a terrorist event, the first thing to do was to bring the National Security Committee together. We've met something like 20 times over 25 days. And to make sure that we've properly examined, were these people, the perpetrators, part of a cell here in Australia? Would there be a follow-up event the next day? How did we make sure that security measures were put in place? So, we did that. New South Wales, of course, announced that they would have a Royal Commission. We said we'd fully cooperate with that. That effectively would have been, engaged a Commonwealth Royal Commission as well. But what we did was listen to people. It's clearly, we've done this in an orderly way. That's the way that my Government functions. Orderly, considered, getting it right, not doing half announcements, but making sure that yesterday after considerable consultation –
CAISLEY: Sorry to cut you off, Prime Minister. I just wanted to say, I mean, you faced enormous political pressure over the past couple of weeks. Sporting, medical, legal, and security figures. You've had MPs such as Josh Burns privately lobbying you. I understand your position began to shift last Friday. What I'm really trying to get to here is, what was the tipping point for you to see this shift and announce? Because with all due respect, on December 30, as recently as then, you said 'our position is not out of convenience, it is out of conviction on this issue'. And certainly at that point, a Commonwealth Commission, or Royal Commission, I should say, wasn't on the table.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there were a few things that had to happen. One is, we had to get the agreement of New South Wales to not have two Royal Commissions. That's something when I was first asked about a Royal Commission, you will note that I would have said, because that would have been confusing and counterproductive. So, Premier Minns announced, after discussions that we've had previously, of course, last night, he confirmed that New South Wales wouldn't proceed. We also had to make sure that it didn't interfere with any of the legal case that was going forward against the alleged perpetrator who was not killed at that time. We needed to make sure that it didn't undermine social cohesion, but helped to build social cohesion. We needed to make sure that we got the terms of reference right. I sat down with families, I listened to them. It's very clear to me that what they required and we required for national unity, that has been absolutely my priority here, is a federal Commonwealth Royal Commission that would examine antisemitism, examine as well how we build social cohesion, make sure that we did it in a way with the right commissioner in Virginia Bell, former High Court Justice, former leader in the New South Wales Supreme Court, a well respected, before that, criminal lawyer who could navigate the issues whilst making sure as well that we roll in the Richardson Review that has already begun.
CAISLEY: Prime Minister, sorry to cut you off. I understand what you're saying, but there's certainly been a turnaround here from you. Why the shift?
PRIME MINISTER: I have listened to people. We've considered everyone's position. Is it possible to build unity in this way? I think it very much is. I'm very pleased that it's been welcomed across the political spectrum. At no stage have I engaged in political rhetoric during this period. What I have done is engaged and sit down with families. I've listened to them. I've sat down in people's homes. I've had people to Kirribilli House. We've had people to Admiralty House, even on New Year's Eve. We sat down and discussed with families, with rabbis. I've sat down in synagogues, in homes, in offices, in my Sydney residence. We've had a number of meetings with leaders of the Jewish community as well. As well, we've engaged with others as well about social cohesion and how we build it going forward. And I've determined that this is the right way forward. We have proper Cabinet processes and this has all been through our Cabinet as well. This is a record time, in fact, for a Royal Commission to be called. It normally will take a very long period of time. And I'm sure that one of the reasons why there wasn't a Royal Commission after Lindt or after the Bali bombing or after Tasmania is because of that as well.
CAISLEY: PM, sorry. I just wanted to quickly ask you, national security's really been brought into focus given the fact that we've seen this massacre at Bondi, no less. Was it a mistake to remove ASIO and the Australian Federal Police from Home Affairs and exclude intelligence chiefs from the National Security Committee meetings for nearly two years in your first term of government?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the premise of the question is wrong.
CAISLEY: How is it, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: The premise is completely wrong. We have completely engaged with all of the national security –
CAISLEY: The ASIO Director-General –
PRIME MINISTER: Mike Burgess was appointed to –
CAISLEY: He didn't attend National Security Committee meetings for two years in your first term of government.
PRIME MINISTER: I'm sorry, Olivia, but you weren't at the NSC meetings. I was. What Mike Burgess didn't do was sit through all of the meetings when we were doing the AUKUS arrangements, but anytime that there was anything to do with intelligence or anything else, Mike Burgess is always in the room. Every single occasion. This is a guy – I don't think he's taken any leave, because I've never been in a meeting discussing any national security issues where he has not been there.
CAISLEY: Including the first term of your government?
PRIME MINISTER: Correct.
CAISLEY: Prime Minister, thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Olivia.