BRIDGET BRENNAN, HOST: Time now to talk about our top story, that of the Australian Government making the decision that it will recognise a Palestinian state. And the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, joins me now from Melbourne. Good morning to you, Prime Minister.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Good to be with you.
BRENNAN: It's taken more than 70 years for a decision like this to be made. How do you think this moment will be remembered in the years to come?
PRIME MINISTER: It will be remembered as Australia playing our part in the building of momentum towards a two-state solution. Quite clearly, for 77 years there has been conflict in the Middle East, but in particular the tragedy that we see playing out before our eyes arising from the October 7 terrorist attack by Hamas, but then the extraordinary loss of innocent lives that we've seen. There has been too many innocent lives lost, both Israelis and Palestinians, and the world is saying, we need a solution to this conflict. We need to end the cycle of violence. And the way to do that is to have a two-state solution with a demilitarised Palestinian state where Hamas, of course, have no role to play in that, and a secure Israel as a state which is recognised by the states around it.
BRENNAN: A couple of weeks ago, Prime Minister, you'd said that this decision was not necessarily imminent. Did something change in your mind? Was there a crucial moment where you decided that this needed to be done now?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we've been engaged with our like-minded partners, but in addition to that, of course, Prime Minister Netanyahu made a statement yesterday morning, before we'd made the statement, following on from the discussion that I had with him last Thursday, where I clearly indicated that the discussion and his argument was the same that he was putting a year ago. That if we just have more military action in Gaza, somehow that will produce a different outcome. What it's producing is more and more innocent lives being lost, more and more violence, more and more destitution that we are seeing playing out with the starvation that has occurred in Gaza. And in the lead up to the September meeting of the United Nations General Assembly, what you're seeing is countries like France, the United Kingdom, Canada, other countries as well will be joining, saying that we need as an international community to build that momentum to a breaking of this cycle of violence.
BRENNAN: So, has frustration at the Netanyahu Government's reluctance to listen to its allies contributed to this Australian decision?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, the decisions of the Netanyahu Government, firstly the stopping of aid that we've seen and then the loss of life that we're seeing around those aid distribution points, where people queuing for food and water are losing their lives, is just completely unacceptable. And we have said that. I spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu. He again reiterated to me what he has said publicly as well, which is to be in denial about the consequences that are occurring for innocent people. I mean, we have no truck with Hamas. Hamas needs to be disarmed, needs to be gotten rid of. The international community is very clear about that. But the other things that have happened -- on June 10, the Palestinian Authority made a clear statement reiterating its recognition of the State of Israel, but committing to reform of the Palestinian Authority, including in areas like education. It made a commitment to a demilitarised state, a commitment for an international role for peacekeeping on the border. But importantly as well, I think the breakthrough meeting convened by France and Saudi Arabia where Arab nations indicated a willingness to all recognise the State of Israel and to move forward to disarm Hamas and condemned Hamas, condemned the October 7 atrocities by that terrorist organisation, really see that momentum moving forward, and Australia wants to be a part of that because I think Australians overwhelmingly just want to see the killing and the cycle of violence stop.
BRENNAN: We've just had local Palestinians on the program who support more than 1,600 Palestinian refugees here in Australia. They welcome this decision, but they'd like to see the Australian Government go further, impose potential sanctions on Israeli government officials, for example, stop some diplomatic relations with Israel. Are those measures that the Australian Government would consider if Israel continues to stop heeding our warnings?
PRIME MINISTER: We're not going to stop diplomatic relations. That's completely counterproductive, and we have diplomatic relations with a range of countries around the world that we have disagreements with. But you engage, you engage, and we'll continue to do that. We need to look for real solutions with the international community, and that's precisely what Australia is doing.
BRENNAN: What role do you see Australia playing in the potential reconstruction of Gaza, which seems such a long way away, but could we play a role in the reestablishment of services, health services and the like, into the future?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, certainly, Australia, of course, around the world has played a constructive role, whether it be in areas like the Timor-Leste when it became a nation. In other countries around the world, we play a constructive role. We're not big players in the Middle East, which is why, though, we're joining with other countries around the world, like-minded countries, to play our part. We remain very much committed to two states, and that is a recognition as well that in order for Palestinian justice, in order for the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people for their own state to be realised, you also need security for the State of Israel. And that's something that some of the debate that's going on doesn't recognise. It's something I'm absolutely committed to, and it's something that we have seen advanced with the statements that were made in New York as well. It's why that momentum is so important.
BRENNAN: Critics of this decision say that this risks a collapse indefinitely of ceasefire agreements. Can you see their point?
PRIME MINISTER: The violence has gone on since 2023, since October 7, and the Netanyahu Government strategy is just to keep going, just to keep doing more of the same, to occupy Gaza city. It's already occupying vast parts of Gaza. It's supporting an increase in settlements on the West Bank. It is engaging in settler violence supported by Israeli authorities on the West Bank. We're seeing more of the same. What we need to do is to do something different. The international community are saying that we want peace and security for both Israelis and Palestinians.
BRENNAN: The killing of five Al Jazeera journalists has sparked immense grief. The United Nations has condemned that action from Israel. What's your assessment on the targeting of journalists in Gaza, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, I'm not in a position to comment on any individual. What we can say, though, is that too many innocent lives have been lost in Gaza. Innocent lives were lost with the terrorist actions of Hamas on October 7, and innocent lives have been lost since then, both Palestinians and Israelis. There have been too many journalists, people who are aid workers as well, providing assistance, including of course, an Australian citizen lost in the past couple of years, we see too many innocent lives being lost across the board.
BRENNAN: Prime Minister, if you wouldn't mind, I'll just take you to South Australia where we've got special coverage of the devastating algal bloom across the coastline. Are you keen to go to South Australia and see the damage for yourself? So many tourism operators, businesses and community members are really devastated by what's happening there.
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, I'll be there next week. I had a discussion with Premier Malinauskas over the weekend.
BRENNAN: That's good to hear. What day will you be there, Prime Minister? Can we confirm?
PRIME MINISTER: I'll be there next week. I don't project my diary on ABC a week in advance, with respect.
BRENNAN: No, that's totally fair enough. But you are concerned by what's happening there, it seems as though a lot of communities are concerned by the ongoing losses --
PRIME MINISTER: Of course, everyone is. This is the consequence of course, of nutrients flowing into the water and the temperature of the water being well over what is normal for this time of the year, and it's having a very real impact. Just like I went and visited South Australia with the Premier to see firsthand the impact of the drought that has happened in South Australia as well. We are, as a government, very concerned. This isn't something that's the fault of any government, it's something that is a consequence of those nutrients and those high water temperatures which are there. There are a range of environmental factors happening, unfortunately too many, right around Australia at various times. And a lot of my focus is on dealing with the consequences of that, but also dealing with the long-term issues that are coming as a result of climate changing.
BRENNAN: Well, it'll be really welcome, I'm sure, for so many South Australians to see you there. Thanks very much, Prime Minister for joining us on News Breakfast this morning.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks a lot.