MICHAEL ROWLAND, HOST: Prime Minister, welcome to 7:30.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good to be with you, Michael.
ROWLAND: Why did it take you so long to read the national room on a federal royal commission?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's just been 25 days, Michael, since that travesty of the antisemitic terrorist attack at Bondi Beach. And in that time, our priority has been firstly to make sure that we look at the national security issues. So, during that time we've already established the Richardson Review, We've increased funding for security agencies, we have strengthened the recommendations of the Special Envoys Report to Combat Antisemitism. We've been drafting legislation on hate laws for the Parliament to come back. And we said, in response to New South Wales announcing they will have a Royal Commission, we said that there'd be full Commonwealth cooperation with that, which would in effect have been a Commonwealth and New South Wales Royal Commission. So, what we've determined is we've listened to people, people's responses, we've responded to that constructively. We've also been working through - these recommendations and the terms of reference weren't done this morning. They were done over a long period of time, including with proper consultation with the community to make sure that we got it right. Because what we didn't want is a series of announcements. We wanted one announcement, with the Royal Commissioner, with the right structures in place to make sure that we make a real difference, which is what people are looking for.
ROWLAND: So, you've been working on the terms of reference for this federal royal commission, just to clarify, for some weeks now. Why not make that clear to people earlier in the process?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, for some time, well Michael, in today's 24 hour media cycle, you can either allow it to run you or you can be an orderly considered government that go through proper processes, that have proper consultation. And one of the things that I've been doing as well is sitting down with families like in the home of Rabbi Ulman, who has welcomed this report. I spoke to him today, he's in New York, he's the leader of the Chabad community there in Bondi that organised the Hanukkah event. I've sat in homes, I've spoken to relatives, I've met with leaders of the Jewish community organisations, but in particular those local people grieving. And we have made sure that we've got this right. The terms of reference I note have been welcomed by a range of Jewish organisations, business organisations and others. And what we've been focused on is making sure that the country can unite and go forward. While others have been seeking division, we've been seeking unity and cohesiveness.
ROWLAND: You talk about Jewish, some members of the Jewish community grieving. Families of the victims, a week ago begged, almost begged you to set up a federal Royal Commission. Shouldn't that, should not that have been the point where you'd say, 'yes, we are at least considering the terms of reference' to save them further grief?
PRIME MINISTER: I sat down with those families, Michael, very deliberately. Last night I was at St. Vincent's Hospital with Gefen Bitton, who is someone who suffered quite severe injuries, who today was medivacked to Israel. I sat down with him, with Rabbi Mendel of that community who lost a relative in that horrific attack by the terrorists. I sat down with him, his father, his brother and other community members. And I've engaged constructively. And let me just say this, Michael, the generosity and warmth that I have received, I've been very grateful for. Listening to people's stories in people's homes, engaging with people, whether it be at Kirribilli House, at Admiralty House with the Governor-General, even on New Year's Eve, talking to families who are invited there, talking to rabbis, talking to the community. And what we have done is to make sure that we have got this right. And you and I both know, Michael, that a halfhearted announcement of something without who the Royal Commissioner was going to be, without time frames, without terms of reference, wouldn't have created less speculation, it would have created more.
ROWLAND: Excuse the interruption. You had so many Australians from so many different walks of life pursuing you over a federal Royal Commission. Surely you should have taken their views into account. And I want to ask you whether this backflip, and it is a backflip, it will, are you worried that will change perceptions of you as a leader? You finally followed to where a large section of the Australian community has been and has been for some weeks now.
PRIME MINISTER: Michael, I stood up and said that we'd fully cooperate with the New South Wales Royal Commission very early on. At the same time as we're announcing immediate changes, immediate action. Now what we've done here is not defer immediate action. What we haven't done is produce, and the Opposition produced a 73 point Royal Commission plan. That would have taken many years -
ROWLAND: But the question, excuse the interruption, was to your leadership. Are you worried people will see you as a weak leader, following, rather than leading to where all of these Australians, eminent Australians from different walks of life, including the families of the victims, have been for many days, if not weeks before today's announcement of the Federal Royal Commission?
PRIME MINISTER: Michael, I've spoken with the families very directly and I've spoken with other community leaders. And what people want in their leader as well is someone who will listen and will adjust positions on the basis - of a great democracy, we want to hear from people, we want people to participate. I'm not someone who in the past has said that business should stick to its knitting. I've never been of that view. I think that people expressing their views is a good thing. Governments should be open to listening and we have done that. We've also, though, done it in a way which makes sure that what we're not doing is deferring action. What we're doing is supplementing and strengthening the action that we're taking. Now we're preparing the legislation, today the consultation on that happened, began as well with broad members of the community. We want to bring that legislation forward, we want to make sure that it's got right as well, given the constitutional issues that are involved.
ROWLAND: Former High Court Judge Virginia Bell is the Royal Commissioner. Some members of the Jewish community have been strongly opposed to her appointment and said they'd made that very clear to you, fearing that she's too left leaning as one reason. What confidence do you have that Virginia Bell will do the job required of her?
PRIME MINISTER: Virginia Bell has received Australia's highest honour, a Companion of the Order of Australia. She's someone who served at the highest level in New South Wales on the Supreme Court and on the High Court of Australia. She's someone who I have not seen any legitimate criticism of any view that she has expressed. She is someone who is held in such high regard. It was important as well that whoever looked after this Royal Commission, given one of the issues, of course with holding a Royal Commission is the fact that it will take place at the same time as there are criminal proceedings against the alleged terrorist taking place -
ROWLAND: And on that front, excuse the interruption, how can the Commission ensure that criminal trial involving the surviving gunman, that won't be prejudiced?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's why, Michael, you don't just make an announcement to satisfy the questions of a journalist immediately. You give proper consideration to is it possible to have a Royal Commission that does not prejudice criminal and court proceedings. You have a coronial inquiry will take place. You will have criminal proceedings against the person who has been charged with terrorist activities. And Virginia Bell is ideally placed to make sure she gets that balance right. And that's why, in the terms of the Royal Commission, we have said very clearly, and I'll quote from it, Michael, ‘and the necessity for the inquiry to be conducted in a manner that does not occasion prejudice to current or future criminal proceedings or national security, or undermine social cohesion’. We are very confident with the experience that Virginia Bell has that she is the right person to make sure that can be achieved.
ROWLAND: One of the concerns you expressed resisting a Federal Royal Commission earlier was your worry that it would give a platform to people with violent, antisemitic views. How will the Federal Royal Commission address that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, in the terms that I've just put forward, one of the ways in which the Commission will conduct its proceedings is to not undermine social cohesion. So, that is why we put that in there. Because one of the things that has happened with the increase in temperature here in Australia, Michael, is that I think that Australians overwhelmingly want two things. They want, they understand that we're not big players in the Middle East. They don't want, they want it to stop. They want peace and security for both Israelis and Palestinians. They want that around the world. But the other thing that Australians want is they don't want conflict brought here. And that's why we need to use this Royal Commission to ensure that we strengthen our national unity, that we strengthen social cohesion, that we reassert who we are as Australians. Because as Australians, we respect each other in our diversity. We respect people's right to practice their faith. We respect people to be who they are and to be able to go about that in the Australian way. So, the attack on December 14 was targeting Jewish Australians, but it was also targeting the Australian way of life.
ROWLAND: Prime Minister, would you be prepared to give evidence to this Royal Commission?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the Royal Commission will decide those things independently. And it’s one of the things-
ROWLAND: Would you be eager to give evidence?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's an independent Royal Commission. I'll allow the Royal Commissioner to do her job. It won't be with the advice of the government. We've established the terms of reference. They will go to the Governor-General, Her Excellency Sam Mostyn, tomorrow. And the work is already underway from the Attorney General's Department to establish the structure, if you like, that will be needed for the Royal Commission to proceed.
ROWLAND: Prime Minister, appreciate your time. Thank you.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Michael.