NAT LOCKE, HOST: Welcome back, for the first time since he was re-elected, the Prime Minister.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. My second trip to WA though since the election. Dropped in here.
LOCKE: I know we're a bit sad that you didn't so come and say hello.
PRIME MINISTER: I know. Sorry about that.
SHAUN MCMANUS, HOST: Were you down at Gage Roads? That was the –
PRIME MINISTER: That was during the last week of the election campaign and I've got to say I've been to a few craft breweries in my time –
LOCKE: Good one, isn't it?
MCMANUS: It's not bad, is it?
PRIME MINISTER: That is a ripper.
LOCKE: I know. And like it is like, this massive ship will go past. Yeah, yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: And we got a really good reception there, I've got to say. I was there with Josh Wilson and we came in and we had with us at that time all the travelling media bus and they all piled out of the bus. We thought we'll take them there at the end of what was a long day. We started – I forget where we started to tell you the truth – we flew into Busselton though, from somewhere, and then went to Collie. And then went up drop into Mandurah and handed out there for a while and then went to Freo to Gage Roads at the end of the day to give – you've got to give the journos a bit of reward at the end of the day.
MCMANUS: But after a long day for you, did you just devour your first beer?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I had – I at the time of course was zero alcohol. So, they have a good zero alcohol beer – didn’t have it on tap though.
MCMANUS: Yeah Boy, I think, is the name of it.
LOCKE: So, you went zero alcohol all through the campaign, is that what you did?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, from January 1.
LOCKE: Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: So, just part of the discipline that you do.
LOCKE: What about now? Not anymore then?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no, the lids off, you know.
LOCKE: But we should talk about your victory –
PRIME MINISTER: Still pretty modest. But it was great. But I pulled beers there.
MCMANUS: Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: And that was pretty good. I'm not sure that the owners were happy there because I pulled beers, gave them to punters and of course didn't take money.
LOCKE: No.
MCMANUS: What are they going to do?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, exactly, exactly. They got the PM pulling beers. So, you know.
LOCKE: Exactly. It's a small price to pay.
PRIME MINISTER: It was good fun. Great atmosphere though. I think it's one of the best places I've been to.
LOCKE: Yeah. Now congratulations – because a victory, an election victory that, I mean six months ago was not looking likely at all. The polls were – had, you know, Peter Dutton in front as preferred Prime Minister. But you were very confident. You told us off air, 'we will win.' And that was early on in the campaign and you said that with absolute conviction. So, what was it that you thought you had the edge?
PRIME MINISTER: Because one, we had a plan and I knew what our plan was and I think it was very clear to me that the Opposition didn't have a plan, didn't have policies, hadn't done hard yards. Peter Dutton had done interviews with just a couple of radio stations and a particular late night TV network, speaking to the crowd that were always gonna vote for him anyway, but weren't talking to Australians about issues that they were concerned about. And that gave me confidence. He never addressed the National Press Club in the entire time that he was Leader of the Opposition. He avoided press conferences in Canberra and they didn't have any alternative policy. They had grievance, they patched in there. And Australians have been doing it tough, like people right around the world with global inflation. But I knew that when we pointed out we've done the following on cost of living – Cheaper Child Care, Free TAFE, the energy bill relief, the support that we've given, the tax cuts for everyone – that we could say we've done this. We recognise people have done it tough, but Peter Dutton opposed everything. Yeah, we get that you've got it tough, but it would have been a lot tougher if the Liberals had had their way. And I think that put us in good stead and we had a plan for further tax cuts, further relief as well, to make a difference to people. We had the 20 per cent off HECS debt and they were opposing everything. And so I was always confident that the Australian people would –
LOCKE: Yeah, well, they did, in a landslide.
PRIME MINISTER: When they were faced with the options –
LOCKE: Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: I know what it's takes to go from Opposition to Government. I know how hard I worked. I know how hard the entire team worked to put forward that coherent plan and I just didn't see it.
MCMANUS: It was mixed messaging from the other side.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah. And you know, the work from home stuff was a mess.
LOCKE: Yeah. The back flipping on that.
PRIME MINISTER: They got themselves in a position of supporting higher taxes, bigger deficits and having savage cuts. I’m not quite sure how you managed to get those three things, but they did. And on nuclear as an example, like nuclear is just an absurd policy for the economy. To say, we're gonna stop the roll out of renewables and we're gonna go and give you something that'll give you 4 per cent of Australia's energy needs in the 2040s. That's not coherent. It doesn't stack up. And if it did stack up, the private sector would invest in it.
ROSS WALLMAN, HOST: Albo, I know it was a big win. I know you said back to work on Monday straight after that –
PRIME MINISTER: And I have been.
WALLMAN: I know you're working hard, but did you take any time to put your hair down? How did you celebrate after that moment?
PRIME MINISTER: I was at my local rissole, the RSL at Canterbury-Hurlstone Park. It was a bit of a loose night from the troops there. There were hundreds and hundreds of people. It was nice –
LOCKE: So, that's when you broke the drought, the no drinking drought?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, absolutely. I had a beer on the night of May 3. But it was nice too, because some of the mates that I grew up with in Camperdown, they all came along. So, it was wonderful to see.
WALLMAN: Did you get a bit loose?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no, because I did this –
MCMANUS: A couple of shoeys.
PRIME MINISTER: No, none of that. I don't get the shoey thing – No, I don’t get it.
WALLMAN: Get the shoes –
PRIME MINISTER: I don't get it. It's not gonna happen. I'm really, really not – you've been to The Lodge –
MCMANUS: But everyone gets caught up in the moment at some point.
PRIME MINISTER: I'm really – no chance of me ever doing a shoey. None.
WALLMAN: We're going to keep this. I reckon at some stage someone will get you.
PRIME MINISTER: Nope. It's not gonna happen.
MCMANUS: Daniel Ricciardo might be over at The Lodge at some stage and you'll do a shoey with him.
PRIME MINISTER: I would just find it – nah – disgusting.
WALLMAN: Get can get a new shoe. You can get a new shoe. So, it's not.
PRIME MINISTER: And then you're ruining a shoe.
WALLMAN: Or you're really utilising that shoe for a fun purpose.
PRIME MINISTER: It's sacrilege. You know, a beer should be in a glass or a can. Can’t be in a shoe.
WALLMAN: Can be zero per cent beer.
LOCKE: Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: Even worse.
WALLMAN: What’s the point?
MCMANUS: You were just talking, as you just mentioned back to work for you. Which you are. You know, obviously we noted that there's a few states putting their hand up about the GST situation.
LOCKE: As always.
MCMANUS: Yeah. And I understand they've racked up some serious debts, particularly Victoria, New South Wales. So, how are you going to deal with that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the thing about the GST is that WA's got its guarantee and that's in place, but there's also no state worse off.
MCMANUS: Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: So, they're getting what they would have got if the WA deal wasn't in place.
LOCKE: So, they've got nothing to complain about.
MCMANUS: Is it smoke and mirrors? Sorry, Nat. Just because it seems it comes up regularly, right, it comes up regularly. So, is it just the sates saying, oh, we need to create some noise to take away from someone?
PRIME MINISTER: State Premiers will always put forward ideas which revolve around a very simple principle – they want more from the Commonwealth.
LOCKE: Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: And Roger Cook I'll meet with later today. I'm sure he will have a proposal for more things from the Commonwealth that's just the way it is. I get on well with all the Premiers and Chief Ministers. I deal with them respectfully. We have put in place really good agreements on better and fairer schools funding, is a significant one. On skills development over 10 years. We have the domestic family violence packages. That's a $4 billion arrangement that we have with states and territories. We've got a housing deal for 1.2 million homes being built. So, over our first term we were able to really deliver significant reform. There's more to do this term. We've got to nut out a health agreement. Further work to do on the NDIS, but we'll get there and we'll get there cooperatively.
MCMANUS: Ross was asking earlier on when you walked in about, have you ever slept in and do you have alarms set?
WALLMAN: I said, I woke up this morning and my alarm went off and I thought, Prime Minister's in – he's a busy dude –
MCMANUS: Absolutely.
WALLMAN: What happens if he doesn't set his alarm or he misses his alarm? And you said?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, no, I've never done it.
LOCKE: You've never done it?
WALLMAN: Never slept in.
LOCKE: You've never slept in, you've never rolled over, turned that alarm off and gone back to sleep?
PRIME MINISTER: Never done it.
WALLMAN: That's a good Prime Minister right there.
LOCKE: That's why. That's why he's Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah. You get that discipline. Like this morning, I woke up before the alarm, I've got to say, because I'm here in WA, so I'm still on East Coast time.
LOCKE: Yeah. That helps, doesn't it?
PRIME MINISTER: So, one of the things that I do do is I tend to operate on Canberra time regardless of where I am. So, you know, the risk of letting your listeners know how nerdy I can be. I was in bed at like, 8 o'clock last night.
LOCKE: Perth time or Canberra time?
PRIME MINISTER: Perth time. I'm not that nerdy.
LOCKE: Just checking.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you guys have the same. What happens if you just don't turn up?
LOCKE: Well, somebody would ring.
WALLMAN: Yeah we’ve got contingencies. And surely you're – you've got a detail of many people, haven’t you?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, I've got security, but they tend not to – they've never had to knock on the door. I don't know what they do. I'll ask them.
LOCKE: Test them out.
PRIME MINISTER: What would you do?
WALLMAN: Well, you knock on the door. Do they have, like, a hotel key to your room?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, I've never – I haven't opened a door for three years. It’s true.
MCMANUS: Or driven a car, Ross.
PRIME MINISTER: Or driven a car. It actually makes sense when you think about it. They go into a room before I do. They go into a lift before I do.
LOCKE: You're a world leader.
PRIME MINISTER: They do all of that. It's all a part of checking.
LOCKE: Yeah.
WALLMAN: They do it here. Like, we feel a little bit offended that they're checking that. Are they all good in here?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, yeah. No, they would pat you down, do all that. You look like a dangerous fella.
LOCKE: Hey, Albo, the one thing that we did see you do is you went to the Pope's funeral.
PRIME MINISTER: I did.
LOCKE: Now, talk to us about that.
PRIME MINISTER: It was one of the moments of my life.
LOCKE: Yes, because you are a Catholic.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, and you had that sense of history. And St. Peter's Basilica. You know, I went there when I did the backpacking around Europe thing in 1988. A long time. A long, long time ago. And you go to St. Peter's and you queue up and you go to the Sistine Chapel and you do all that photo –
LOCKE: And you take a photo in the Sistine Chapel even though you're not allowed to.
PRIME MINISTER: You do all of that. And this time round, to be there at the Inaugural Mass with world leaders –
LOCKE: Yes.
PRIME MINISTER: Sitting there was extraordinary. And St. Peter's is such – the church itself, the Basilica, is so big and it's just daunting, really. You walk in there. So, we had the Mass and then afterwards I met the Holy Father, Pope Leo, and then –
MCMANUS: Sorry, Albo cutting you in here. How do you address him when you met him?
PRIME MINISTER: I addressed him as Holy Father.
MCMANUS: Yeah. Holy Father. That's what you – yeah.
LOCKE: And then say, g'day, I'm Albo.
MCMANUS: Fancy as shoey? No.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we, then the next day I had a one on one. A papal audience.
LOCKE: Yes.
PRIME MINISTER: And there's a whole thing with the Swiss Guards and they march and –
LOCKE: And they’ve all got funny outfits, yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: A lot of pomp and ceremony and walking through the areas that are obviously private areas there of the Vatican was extraordinary. There's artwork everywhere. There's frescoes. Like, it's quite – it’s an extraordinary experience.
LOCKE: What an amazing experience.
PRIME MINISTER: And then we were supposed to meet for 15 minutes, were scheduled. And we had three quarters of an hour –
LOCKE: What are you talking about with the Pope? Shooting the breeze.
PRIME MINISTER: We talked about everything. We talked about the state of the world. We talked about inequality –
LOCKE: You're one of the few people since he's been, who’s probably heard him speak English, I imagine, because he did everything in Spanish or Italian.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, he did the Mass, he did Spanish, Italian, Portuguese –
LOCKE: Amazing.
PRIME MINISTER: English, I think he did German as well. He did a whole range of languages, that was inclusive. And that's one of the things that he, following on from Pope Francis, who wanted to modernise the Church and make it more inclusive. And so it was – it was an incredible meeting. We discussed everything. I don't – we're not allowed to talk about all the details.
LOCKE: He's a big sports fan.
PRIME MINISTER: He's a tennis guy. We talked about the Church. We talked about the election here in Australia, the state of the world and some of the conflicts that are going on around the world and what he wanted to do as the leader of the world's Catholics. It was a real honour and a privilege, I've got to say. And I took along my mum's rosary beads –
LOCKE: Oh, Albo, that’s beautiful.
PRIME MINISTER: And gave them to him to do a blessing and he – I'll never forget him just us sitting like we are here with him with the rosary beads and giving them a blessing. It was a real, real moment for me.
MCMANUS: Do you feel the holiness? I don't know if that's a weird word to say, but you're standing –
PRIME MINISTER: Oh yeah. You feel that sense of, you know, it was a spiritual moment. We talked about spirituality and values and, you know, part of my values of social justice and compassion, and during the election campaign, I think one of the key moments in the campaign was during one of the debates where I said: kindness isn't weakness.
LOCKE: No, that’s a good message.
PRIME MINISTER: You know, this whole macho stuff that was going on out there, and there's a bit of that now, too, the sort of muscling up, you know, that goes on. Kindness and compassion is a strength and that’s part of my values. It's part of what I was raised with by my mum and through, I guess, that connection with Catholicism and caring about others.
LOCKE: Yeah. Amazing.
MCMANUS: So interesting.
LOCKE: Thank you. Thanks for sharing that, too. What an extraordinary experience. It's always a pleasure to have you back in.
WALLMAN: You didn’t forget us, either.
PRIME MINISTER: No, absolutely, absolutely.
LOCKE: We'll see you next time.
PRIME MINISTER: You will indeed.
LOCKE: Excellent. Thanks, Albo.