SCOTT BEVAN, HOST: Well before he heads to Newcastle, Prime Minister Albanese has kindly given up some of his Saturday morning to join us here. Prime Minister, good morning to you.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Scott. Good to be with you. And I'm very much looking forward to being in Newcastle tomorrow afternoon with my friend, Prime Minister Rabuka. He certainly is, he's looking forward to it. I was hosted by the Prime Minister in Fiji just a couple of weeks ago and I know this is a very, very big deal. The Vuvale Bowl as we are calling it, and Vuvale translates as ‘my home is your home’. That says a lot about the two-way respect between Australia and Fiji, and we're all part of the Pacific family. And tomorrow will be a very big deal
BEVAN: Indeed, and I'll be talking more about that family shortly. Your love of rugby league, of course, is renowned being a Rabbitohs tragic. But how much do you know about, even like perhaps rugby union?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I certainly like rugby union. Rugby league is the game that I grew up with and so I've been to many, many more rugby league games than rugby union games. But played at the highest level, of course, the skill set is very similar and there's been a lot of people, including of course the latest, Joseph Suaalii has played in both codes, of course, and that's something that's been there for a long period of time. And the Wallabies have a special place in Australian sporting history. And so this will be an important game in itself. We are hosting the Rugby World Cup, the men's World Cup in 2027, in just a couple of years now. So that will be a big deal. And I think the tours this year by Fiji and then the British and Irish Lions, of course, are out here at the moment as well. I think hopefully we'll see the profile of rugby union build up.
BEVAN: Listening to you, you sound like a rugby union die hard, Prime Minister. Is this tantamount to changing factions? A rugby league tragic, embracing that other code of rugby?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no. I came out of the womb with cardinal and myrtle eyes and I will forever be a Rabbitohs die hard. And I'll be at the State of Origin, of course. The game on Wednesday night will be a very big deal as well.
BEVAN: Who are you going for in that one?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course I am going for the Blues. Of course.
BEVAN: Just checking, just checking.
PRIME MINISTER: No, no, you've got to stay loyal. And I went to the game up there in Brisbane and that was very disappointing for - the local Queenslanders are very passionate about supporting their team. And tomorrow one of the things that we'll see is passionate Australians, but also many passionate Fijian supporters will be there. I expect a very, very big and loud crowd there at the stadium in Newcastle.
BEVAN: Prime Minister, it is, of course, tomorrow more than a game, though. As you mentioned, the Fijian Prime Minister, Sitiveni Rabuka is also attending. What opportunity does this present to deepen relations, perhaps open new relations with Fiji?
PRIME MINISTER: It is really important to recognise that relationships between nations essentially come down to relationships between people. And that's why we unapologetically have provided support to support rugby in the region. That includes support that Australia has provided of $10 million over seven years for the Fijian Drua women and men to participate in those Super Rugby Pacific and Australia Super W competitions. That's really important that relationship that we have. And the fact that Prime Minister Rabuka has timed his visit to Australia, he was in Canberra this week, met with Her Excellency the Governor-General and met with many of my Ministers, but he's also timed it to be here for the Rugby Test. And it is a great way in which our nations can show our commonality. We are all members of the Pacific family, and throughout the Pacific, in some areas, Tonga and Samoa, Rugby League tends to be stronger, but Rugby Union is the strongest sport in Fiji. And of course, who could not have got pleasure from watching the magnificent Rugby Seven teams that Fiji has produced over the years. And indeed Fiji beat Australia, of course, at the last Rugby World Cup and they will be taking this very, very seriously indeed. It'll be a great test for Australia tomorrow.
BEVAN: Prime Minister, for those who look at the money spent on, for want of a better term, sports diplomacy, for instance, say the $600 million over a decade for the PNG based NRL team. And if a taxpayer goes, ‘Well, is it worth it? What's in it for us? What's in it for me?’ How do you put a value on sports diplomacy and direct that to the Australian taxpayer and say, yeah, it's worth it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, one of the things, for example, that the PNG team will do is to cement the relationship between Papua New Guinea and Australia that is so important. Of course, PNG celebrates its 50 years of independence this year and so it is timely that that relationship is being cemented for what is a fervent and passionate supporter base in PNG. And one of the things that Rugby League will do, as Union does and a sport can do, is to link in with education and economic development. So, you will see coming from that increased tourism into Papua New Guinea. You'll see something else as well, which is that kids who dream of being able to represent their local community, and indeed their nation, in sporting activities will have to go to school, will be linked in with educational participation. It will provide a real pathway for economic development. It also will mean better health outcomes and a stronger and more secure and healthier and smarter PNG population with increased education resources, will be a stronger Australia. It's very much in Australia's national interest. And that is just some of the relationships which are there. We have a considerable defence and security presence throughout the Pacific and that's very much in these uncertain times in Australia's interests. And one of the ways that we cement that is through those personal relations.
BEVAN: You said recently, Prime Minister, that Australia will always be a reliable partner to the Pacific. What does that reliability look like? And do you believe the other Pacific nations see us, see Australia, as a reliable partner?
PRIME MINISTER: They certainly do, and increasingly that is the case. If you look at the upgraded relationships that we have in defence and security with Fiji, with Papua New Guinea, with countries like Tuvalu and Nauru as well in the Pacific, some of those smaller nations, the upgrade in relationship with Vanuatu. We see ourselves as, we're major providers of aid, we're major providers of defence and security relations. One of the things we've done, in a practical sense, that we announced at the last Pacific Island Forum, is police training and recruitment. That's taking place largely at headquarters in Brisbane, but also with sites throughout the Pacific, including in Fiji and Papua New Guinea. And what that means is that if you have police and security personnel in those respective nation states trained in Australia, with Australian values and culture inevitably having an impact, then that strengthens the democracies in our region. It strengthens interoperability and that can lead to more efficient use of resources as well. It means as well that when there is, as unfortunately there are extreme weather events and defence personnel help out or security issues where there is multinational forces engaged, then you have that starting point of knowing each other's cultures and rules and getting some standardisation across the region. And that is very much in Australia's interest, but it's also very much in the interest of these Pacific island states.
BEVAN: And, Prime Minister, with the changes we are seeing in the region and beyond, with the changing nature of our relations with the major powers, notably the United States, with China, how important is it for us to pull friends geographically close to us? Pacific friends even closer?
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely critical. And one of the things that the Pacific Island Forum nation states have been clear on is that we need to be the security partners of choice for each other. And that is very much in Australia's national interests that that occur because we are family and we assist each other as friends, not with strings attached. What we do is we help each other out because of our common interests and our common values.
BEVAN: At the same time there are other, bigger powers, China, Russia, attempting to pull Pacific nations closer to them in all means of ways. How do we ensure that these nations, our neighbours, as you call them, our family, how do we ensure they don't feel that they're in some sort of geopolitical tug of war which could well damage our relations with them and undermine the idea that we are indeed reliable partners?
PRIME MINISTER: Well that's through, not just through word, but through deed and by these sort of actions. By that interaction, which is what we'll see tomorrow. The truth is that we enjoy similar sporting activities because we have similar histories and because we are part of the same region and those personal relations are so important. And that's why there is a link between sporting activity and political discourse. And tomorrow I really look forward to once again having a warm discussion, a bit of rivalry between myself and Prime Minister Rabuka. But it will all be undertaken in good spirit. And if you look at the comments that Prime Minister Rabuka has made this week during his visit to Australia, they have been very strong about the security relationship between Australia and Fiji, and that is the security partnership of choice.
BEVAN: Have you worked out a bet with Prime Minister Rabuka, like the New South Wales and Queensland Premiers do for the State of Origin, you know, where you could advertise Fiji by putting on budgie smugglers and doing a tourist ad in Fiji?
PRIME MINISTER: I don't think that me wearing budgie smugglers would attract people to Fiji and it could indeed damage our relationship. But I think we are having a bit of an exchange of gifts tomorrow of our respective national jerseys, and that will be a source of pride as well, because the Fijian rugby team are, of course, such a source of national pride for all Fijians.
BEVAN: Who's going to win the Vuvale Cup, Prime Minister, and by how much?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I certainly hope the Wallabies win and I hope it's a close game, and I'm sure it will be. I think it will be really entertaining as well. The Fijian team are always full of entertainers, and of course many of them play Rugby and Rugby League in Australia, of course. The Fijian community and diaspora have produced many great footballers, and I really look forward to tomorrow. And I encourage people there in the great city of Newcastle to come out and support the Wallabies tomorrow. They might need support because I know there'll be a lot of Fijians there. He of course was, Prime Minister Rabuka himself, was a former great prop forward who played for Fiji of course. And so he certainly loves his rugby. It will be a terrific day.
BEVAN: Prime Minister, before I let you go, what's the sporting moment seared into your memory? That is indelible.
PRIME MINISTER: Oh gee, to go back to Rugby League of the 1971 Grand Final where my mum took me to see Souths beat St. George. And then I had the great privilege of taking my young son, as he was then, to the 2014 Grand Final to see Souths beat Canterbury. So that sense of connection and who we are is so important. And seeing, my best rugby moment was seeing, I think it was Ofahengaue scored the try beneath the posts at what's now called Accor Stadium there, the Olympic stadium when the Wallabies won the Bledisloe Cup. Which has been, not happened that often unfortunately. But being there to see that occur was a great moment as well.
BEVAN: Well, thank you for sharing those moments with us here. Thank you for giving up some of your Saturday morning. And we look forward to welcoming you to the Hunter tomorrow.
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you very much. Have a lovely weekend for all of your listeners. And I look forward to being in Newcastle tomorrow. But then of course Newcastle is hosting four of the games in the Rugby World Cup in 2027 as well. So, it's a great sporting city.
BEVAN: You'll be almost a Novocastrian, Prime Minister, you'll be here that often.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, always happy to be in Newcastle.
BEVAN: Good on you. And in honour of your beloved Rabbitohs we'll finish with The Day John Sattler Broke His Jaw, the Whitlam song. But for now, thanks so much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Fantastic, thank you so much. Bye.
BEVAN: Bye.